Note: This interview was conducted as part of a baseline investigation of writing and speaking activities in electrical engineering. The project was funded by Colorado State University and the Colorado Commission on Higher Education. Principal investigators for the project are Mike Palmquist, Donald E. Zimmerman, and Kate Kiefer.

Interviewer: The first group of questions that I'll ask you, uh, are just background information. Your age?

Student: 24.

Interviewer: And how long have you been at Colorado State?

Student: Five years.

Interviewer: Okay. What year did you graduate from high school?

Student: 1988.

Interviewer: Okay. And, um, what kinds of work experience have you had?

Student: I've been a peer adviser here at school. I've been, um, a certified tutor. I did [TAPE MALFUNCTION] ...at UNC so I took a course equivalent for that. So I didn't have to take it [CO150] here at the university.

Interviewer: Okay. How about, um, CO301?

Student: No.

Interviewer: SP200?

Student: Yep.

Interviewer: Any other speech courses?

Student: No.

Interviewer: Okay. JT300?

Student: No.

Interviewer: Or 301?

Student: No.

Interviewer: Okay. Any other...writing or speaking courses?

Student: This EE401 and 402.

Interviewer: Okay. And we'll definitely talk about that. [laughter] At a little more length. Next I'd like to know if you could tell me other than the EE401 and 402 course, what kinds of writing has been expected of you in your EE course sequence?

Student: Um...mainly um...lab write-ups. With procedures and what-not. And also, um, um, writing in a journal article style format.

Interviewer: Okay. What course did...

Student: I didn't take a course in that...

Interviewer: In several courses did you do that or...?

Student: Mainly it was the courses with the lab and in EE331 and 332 we had to...uh, write up a formal lab report which was kind of in a journal style format.

Interviewer: Okay. Kind of a IEEE style.

Student: Yeah...with theory, experimental procedure, experimental results. Yeah.

Interviewer: Okay. Any other...other than those two experiences, have you been asked to do any research papers or any other kinds of writing?

Student: Um, yeah, actually I have a couple of general, I had two classes that required just a general research article, usually comparing two different kinds of techniques or something.

Interviewer: Okay. Okay. Um, any essay tests or...

Student: Oh no. [laughs]

Interviewer: I didn't think so, but I thought I'd ask. Okay, uh, how about speaking. Has there been any...speaking in any of your electrical engineering classes, in terms of making a presentation to the whole class?

Student: Mmhm. Uh, only with our senior design project class, EE 401, 402. It was the only class we were required to speak in front of a group.

Interviewer: Okay. Uh, how about, uh, small group work, maybe partners or two, three, four people in a small group. Have any of your electrical engineering classes, uh, required you to do that?

Student: [pause] None of the classes that I took, no. Um...[pause] No, I wouldn't, our senior design projects we do on our own and all the other classes I took was mainly homework-based, problem-solving, so...

Interviewer: In your labs, do you, do you have a lab partner?

Student: Yeah, you have a lab partner and you work together on the lab, but you don't...you each write your own write-up...separate from that.

Interviewer: Okay. Um...let's see, um, any activities that you were involved in at CSU that required any writing or speaking?

Student: [pause] Well I was a peer adviser. I had to go to a couple of the freshman classes and introduce myself and what kind of services we had to offer. Um, also when I tutored sometimes, I wouldn't just tutor one-on-one, I would tutor a bunch of students and almost have to go up and like write on a chalkboard. Um...in a couple of the honor societies I'm in...you know, you speak and communicate and sometimes you have to stand up and communicate in front of the group, but otherwise, no...

[PHONE CALL INTERRUPTS FOR A COUPLE MINUTES. TURNED RECORDER OFF.]

Interviewer: Okay, let's see we were talking about some of the honor societies you were in, you had to make some presentations...

Student: Uh, not really a presentation, probably just had to discuss what we were doing in a committee or something like that.

Interviewer: Okay. So there's some committee work and interpersonal...

Student: Yeah.

Interviewer: Okay. Okay, um...let's now talk about your project that you're working on. If you could explain to me just a little bit about what the project is that you're doing and then we can talk more about EE401 and 402.

Student: Okay. I'm working with a scanning electron microscope. Do you know what that is?

Interviewer: Not exactly.

Student: It's like a...it's like an optical microscope. It magnifies, uh, what we're using, devices, uh, PN junction devices and magnifying those up you know 750 to 10,000 times. And so everything you can see is on the micron scale. So it's very tiny. And I'm setting up a system such that if you connect this diode up with a DC source that the electron, the image is produced by electrons, and if the electrons come down and hit the sample, that, if you hit the active regions or the bias part of the um diode, then you'll get an increase in current running through. And hopefully by doing that, you'll be able to see, it'll show up as bright spots. It'll change the contrast of the picture, show up as bright spots, so you can all the active regions of your device, that are working. And then of course see ones that aren't.

Interviewer: Okay. How did you get interested in that project?

Student: Um, actually...my professor just kind of assigned it to me and I, I worked with him before on another project, and I think he kind of knew what I liked. And I like, what I like about this is the hands-on experience...with it. So...that's pretty much how I came in contact with it.

Interviewer: Okay. Did, is it something that's related to a larger project that your professor is working on? Or, um, how did you, other than...your interest, how did you...

Student: Yeah. Well, um...the scanning electron microscope was purchased last summer and, so it's fairly new, and I know that by setting up this ebic system that there's this one guy in our...in the um group that's gonna want to use this set-up for, he's making gain medium for a laser and PN junctions are buried and they're hard to find, so if he was to bias this, and do a ebic contrast picture, then he would get, be able to find the PN junctions very easily.

Interviewer: Okay. So your work contributes to...

Student: Yeah, the work of um...it's more of like a test procedure probably than, um...for other people to come in and test their devices with.

Interviewer: Oh, okay. Great. Um...well, let's see. I think that gives as enough of an understanding as I could understand with my technical knowledge...

Student: [laughs]

Interviewer: ...but I think I get the general idea. Um, what you're doing. Um...tell me a little bit about...the, how, what you're doing in, what you've done and what you're doing in the uh...in doing your project. Any writing or speaking that you're doing on your own, or set up by your adviser, and then anything that you're doing in 401/402.

Student: Um...we...if I understand you correctly, we have um group meetings, biweekly, me and two other people that are working with this professor and we get together. And we have to discuss and tell him, like a progress. How far we've gone, what kind of questions we have. Um...what to do next and so on, so we can stay on the timeline. Um...that's probably the most I've done outside of the actual class. And with the class of course we've done, we've had a speaking workshop this semester and uh a progress report, um, write-up, and a mechanics workshop where we could better our mechanics, make our paper flow...better. So we've done that this semester and it pretty much was the same last semester. Although we did a lot more writing, I think then, than we've done this semester.

Interviewer: Okay. Does your adviser, um, have you...keep any kind of a log or anything?

Student: Yeah, we have to keep a notebook and that's usually when we go to our meetings that's how we...tell him what's going on and what kind of results we've gotten so far and everything to be able to...thumb through that and keep a...you know be able to tell him what's going on. Because for this professor it's very important to him that we keep a timeline and it's, and what we've been working on in a lab notebook.

Interviewer: Okay. Um, and who's your adviser?

Student: Dr. Robinson.

Interviewer: Okay. Um...[pause] in the class I understand that, uh, last semester and this semester that you have to write up a report of your project.

Student: Mmhm.

Interviewer: Uh, how...why don't you tell me a little bit about how, how went about writing your report last semester.

Student: Well, they handed us the format and at the beginning, the beginning part of it...um, had to be...in kind of a very generalized, for a non-technical, um, expert in the field that I'm working on. And then the last half was like in that IEEE format you were mentioning where it's more technical and more um...for a person who's an expert in my field. And usually I just, by doing, I use my lab notebook, and my results and whatnot to help formulate that paper in the right areas.

Interviewer: Okay.

Student: So I think the lab notebook...I mean for me is very helpful, keeps and helps me at the end be able to organize everything in it, in the right format for the paper.

Interviewer: Okay. And how about the progress reports, do you also...use your lab notebook to, to write up the progress reports?

Student: Yeah, I used the lab notebook to write up the progress reports for the class, too. Yeah.

Interviewer: Okay. Uh...you do some...speaking...presentations in this class as well. Um, what kind of strategies have you used to prepare for those?

Student: Well, um, of course we had the practice speeches in class. For the 401/402. And then, um...I usually, um...know...I mean learned on my own how, what kind of format to write up for the speech. And then, um...write it up that way and then of course I practice it in front of friends, to make sure that they understand what's going on and make sure the time is the right amount and the visual aids are clear or anything. So probably after I write it up my biggest thing is probably practicing it.

Interviewer: Okay. Um...I just remembered something. I'm gonna jot it down so that I can...[pause] Actually, you mentioned that you practiced in, uh, in front of friends for your speeches, uh, throughout your time at CSU, have you been involved in any informal, outside of class study groups or anything like that?

Student: Um...I never was in like a group that was just the same people all the time. There was oftentimes we get together in the lounge and...it's kind of...an understood meeting place if you're...Are you guys working on this? Oh, good. You know. And sit down and start working on the same homework that they are on. So probably...I'd have to say yes, but no formal, group that was designed for studying.

Interviewer: Mmhm. Um, would you say that...you consistently throughout your time in the program have done that sort of thing of, of working with other people?

Student: Yeah. I really think it helps because sometimes you can't, you don't have enough time to finish the homework unless you work with somebody else. Because they may think of something that you don't know. So definitely.

Interviewer: Have any of the professors that you've taken encouraged...students to get together outside of class? Uh, or discouraged it or...even mentioned it?

Student: Uh, yeah. I think...they mentioned it mainly when you're a freshman I would say. Mainly then. And I think by the time you get up to sophomore and junior it's just understood that that's what you're gonna do. And, I've even had professors you know, work together on this, you know. And they don't gig you if you work together on a homework assignment or anything.

Interviewer: Okay. All right. Uh...getting back to the, the 401/401 class...how valuable is that to you in the work that you have to do regarding your project or...I don't know how to ask the question, but I guess I'm asking you to assess the value of that class to you.

Student: Yeah. Um...I think it's helpful, but I think it's too late. It's, when you're a senior, it's just...too late to change people's writing skills and the way they've been writing in everything. And I think as a freshman I can remember taking this one class with a lab and they would want us to write, you know write up our labs in this format, but they never taught you the format. And you just kind of struggled, and if you didn't get it right, I mean by the time you're a senior, maybe you still don't quite understand what's going on, and it's...a little too late. I think that this kind of course is very beneficial but I really think they need to start it like when you're a freshman.

Interviewer: Mmhm. Because you feel like you could do what you need to do as far as writing up your final report of your project without the assistance of this course?

Student: Yeah. I think I could because...um...I guess I...I could from the standpoint I did a summer project where I had to write a, a report and give a speech and I learned all, I learned all that stuff in that summer program. And so this course to me as a senior, it was...I would rather be spending more time on my senior design project than writing papers because...it never seems like you have enough time in the day to work on it. And...this writing, it just seems additional work that a lot of people, that I've heard, including myself, don't have time for.

Interviewer: Mmhm. I think in the past before they started this program last year that...there was still a report that was due at the end. Um, and so people were on their own doing that. Um...do you feel like you would have been successful under those circumstances?

Student: Yeah, I think I would've because I had learned how to write, in fact what I had done because I did not know exactly how to write a technical article, I went to the library and checked out a couple books on how to write technical...articles. And learned that way. And in like a week. And just applied it. To that. And then of course it was the same kind of application for this senior design project class. But, yeah, I...

Interviewer: You, you mentioned that you did a summer project, um, when did you do that?

Student: Two...let me see...a year ago last summer.

Interviewer: Okay. And what, what was the context for that. Wh...

Student: It was the Opto-Electronics Scholars program. And, uh, you do a research project, much like a senior design project, only you do it in the summer. You have to write a article or a paper on it and you also give a 15-minute presentation.

Interviewer: And that's here on campus in the department and all that?

Student: Yeah.

Interviewer: Was that something that you had to apply to be in that, to do that summer project?

Student: Yes. Yes, and be accepted.

Interviewer: Mmhm. And, um, did you get credit?

Student: It's a scholarship programs, so you get scholarship money.

Interviewer: Oh, okay. Okay. Uh, and did they teach you, was that when you went to library to look up how to write it? They didn't teach you...they said you have to write a report and give a presentation and that was the end of that?

Student: Well, um, my adviser gave me an outline of how the paper should be written, and the kind of format that he would like it to be written in. And um I just went to the library to get more detail on the outline, mainly.

Interviewer: Okay. You were working on engineering. There was not a writing or presentation component of that course...

Student: No. Uh uh.

Interviewer: ...with instructors and what have you.

Student: Mm mm.

Interviewer: Uh, was that a group situation? Um, where you worked on the project with other people?

Student: Um, no I worked on a project by myself, but...what I was working on was the um, helpful for other people in my group.

Interviewer: Oh, okay.

Student: But I did, I would ask and go get help and get input from other people. But it was pretty much my project.

Interviewer: Each of you had your own...piece to take care of and your own report to write and that sort of thing. Okay. Great. Before I move on, is there anything...um...more about the course, the 401/402 course that you feel is significant, um...in terms of uh...how it's taught or...the...or what you're doing, um....I guess I'm basically looking for a critique. Um, other than what you've told me that it would be more useful earlier on. Um...

Student: Yeah...The class itself...I don't know, I think...by the time I'm a senior, I would rather here have more speakers come in from industry.

Interviewer: Okay. You do have some of those?

Student: Some of those, but um...I don't know, I find that very beneficial to find out what's going on in industry and it can be really good job contacts [laugh] so...

Interviewer: That's what's on your mind as a senior.

Student: Yeah, right at that time, so...Probably more of that I think would be beneficial and...um...I don't know. I would just mainly I really do think it, you know, in fact, I know that everybody on campus has to take uh, take composition class. Well, when you take composition as a freshman, for the most part, you don't apply that to electrical engineering. I mean...writing persuasive, well, I mean, but it's not technical persuasive. It makes a big difference if you're writing...you know on I don't know a subject like...I don't know, something controversial in the newspaper which can, can a lot of times, you know, for example, something that might be controversial in electrical engineering would be like...high power lines, would be controversial, but you don't do...subjects like that in regular composition, you...do more liberal arts kinds of things. In composition. And I think you know if there was some way you could maybe for engineers make that more of the technical writing course. Instead of taking regular comp have a technical composition course, which I think would be a lot more beneficial.

Interviewer: Mmhm. Okay. Great. Uh, how would you rate yourself on your writing skills at this point? You're headed for graduation here soon, right?

Student: Mmhm.

Interviewer: In a few weeks. On a scale of one to ten, what would say that your writing skills are?

Student: Um [pause] I'd have to say like a seven or an eight. I learned my best writing skills in high school. I took a composition class in high school and learned how to research and stuff like that from that. And so was able to apply that. I didn't learn those kinds of things in college. I learned those things in high school. And so I think...for people who had not learned those things in high school, I think I kind of had a...head start on that. But um from what I understand from my adviser and the kind of grades I get back on my papers, I would say a seven or eight.

Interviewer: Okay. Uh...how about speaking in uh giving a presentation to a group type of speaking?

Student: Um, uh, I'd say like a six. I get kind of nervous...sometimes. I think that I have all the right kind of content of the speech, but I think I need to work on the speaking abilities, eye contact, things like that. And I think in speech they stress those enough. They stress so much on your content of your paper and...or on your speech which I think for me, I thought for a speaking course they were gonna teach you how to speak better in front of people and be less nervous rather than worrying about, to me it reminded me more of a composition course where they were concentrating on the content of your...speech. Which is important too, but...if you have wonderful content of your speech and you can't relay it to somebody else, it's useless anyway. So, being able to speak well in front of other people, I think is...important. So...yeah. Six.

Interviewer: Okay. Um, and how about interpersonal communication, working...um, how would I put this...not so much like interpersonal communication with friends and family but in situations where you're working with people.

Student: Like if I have to go in and ask a professor a question or something like that?

Interviewer: Sure, uh, asking for help, um, explaining things to other people who ask you for help, um...any of the experience that you've had on the job, you know problem solving with other people, etc.

Student: Mmm. Mmhm. Um...I have to say probably a seven. Especially since I've been a certified tutor and I've gone through all the...aspects of how to go about helping other people with a problem, you know a homework problem or something like that.

Interviewer: Okay, now you told me that based on the comments that you've gotten back on papers, that's how you come up with a self-assessment for writing, how about for the speaking areas. What...now you said you had a sense of nervousness in public speaking. But what kinds of feedback have you gotten, either in public or interpersonal situations?

Student: Um...for public speaking, I've, I've gotten back good com--, good comments with, um, you know like eye contact and...relaying what I'm trying to say across well. But sometimes, I have gotten comments back that it did seem, seem that I was a little bit nervous.

Interviewer: Okay. And how about your interpersonal situation, the tutoring and what have you?

Student: Yeah. Um...for the tutoring they had to fill out comment cards, but I never...saw them and I never did get any negative feedback from them. So I assume that they were...okay.

Interviewer: Okay. Makes sense to me. Uh...want to move on to...talking a little bit about the future, I guess. [laughter] What kind of engineering work do you want to do?

Student: Um, marketing. And um...where communication is very important. Yeah, I would like to incorporate my technical knowledge in working in like a marketing area to be able to market...and understand...the market around me...for certain kind of technical products. And I think it's important to have a technical background otherwise...you don't quite understand what's going on.

Interviewer: Sure. What kind, what kind of products, could it be anything or do you want to work with computers or...

Student: Mm. Yeah. Um...pretty much anything. I liked all my courses in electrical engineering so. And I took a wide variety of different courses. I didn't specialize or take most of my electives in one kind of area, I kind of went around. And about my electives, I liked them all so. I'd have to say pretty much any area.

Interviewer: Oh, okay. Um...I guess, while we're imagining you could have any job you want. What kind of a firm would you like to work for, in terms of size, and you said you know it doesn't really matter what they make or what they do so much, but um, can you think of ideals of maybe even specific places you'd like to work?

Student: Yeah. Um...well close to home of course. And um...probably more on the larger end where there's a chance of growth and for me to move around in the company. To move around and try different things or even have a chance to move up in the company.

Interviewer: Mmhm. Okay. Um...any local area companies you know that you think, oh boy, I wish they'd hire me.

Student: Yeah, um...well...the three that I'm...I've been having some interest in right at this moment is HP, Storage Tek, and Hughes Aircraft in Aurora.

Interviewer: Okay. That makes it more concrete to give an idea, that they are large and uh they have a varied, from aircraft to scanners and what have you. Um...how successful do you expect to be in...in gaining a job, and talk about the factors...

Student: You mean in getting a job?

Interviewer: Yeah. In getting a job. Let's talk about that first.

Student: How successful am I going to be in getting a job? Well...I hope pretty successful, although um...I'm kind of limited because I really only want to work in northern Colorado. [laugh] So...I don't know how hard that's gonna make me to find a job. But um...I've had some pretty good luck so far. I haven't had a job offer yet. But I've had some pretty good luck with second interviews and on-site interviews.

Interviewer: Oh, okay.

Student: So...I'm hoping before I graduate that I will have a...a job lined up.

Interviewer: Great. Have, have you interviewed with Hewlett-Packard?

Student: Um, yes, I have.

Interviewer: Okay. And you've done, uh ... an on-campus interview with them?

Student: Um, I've done, well I've done all kinds, um, I've done on-campus interviewing. I've done phone interviewing. And um pretty soon here I'll be doing an on-site interview.

Interviewer: Oh, okay. One of those day-long...all those technical interviews, that kind of thing.

Student: Yes.

Interviewer: What do thing about, about that? How...have you told you about all things...?

Student: Yeah. Actually the position is for a marketing position and they um have one interview on marketing, two...non-technical interviews, two technical interviews and then I also have to give a 15-minute presentation to them. As part of, which I had never heard before. That, for me. So it sounds pretty grueling.

Interviewer: Mmhm. How, how are you going to prepare for that?

Student: For the um...

Interviewer: For that day of [laugh]

Student: Um, well I'm going, I'm...I kind of know what I'm gonna do for the speaking and I'm going to of course practice on the speaking. But for the other stuff...I find for myself, if I just go in, I do better rather than get all worked up and...for me, it works better just to...walk in and go from there. And I don't get nervous then.

Interviewer: And they um, for the presentation, they, you pick a topic and...and you go ahead and...

Student: And give it to the five interviewers and overheads. It can be technical or non-technical and so I think I'm gonna choose one of my speeches I've given before on my senior design project.

Interviewer: Oh great.

Student: So...something I already know well.

Interviewer: Yeah, really. Good idea, okay. Um...how...how much contact have you had with people that are in the field? What different...um, you know you did mention that there's been people that have come in and talked to your class. What other kinds of contact have you had with engineers that are on the job?

Student: Um...not very much really. Other than through on-site...interviews. My father is an electrical engineer, but I've never gone and like shadowed him at work or anything like that. Just talked about what he did at work. Or anything. So...I would have to say most of the other stuff I've gotten from people coming in and talking...at school.

Interviewer: Mmhm. Of course, your dad doing that for a living, you've heard about that for a few years, huh?

Student: [laughs] Yeah. Yeah.

Interviewer: And where does he work?

Student: HP.

Interviewer: At HP. Okay. Um...so...given that, how much time do you think an electrical engineer spends...during the working day, what percentage of time is spent on communicating?

Student: I really think it depends on what you're gonna do. If you're R&D, um, not very much. I think you spend a lot of them just working on your little piece of the puzzle and um not communicating not all that much except probably to your boss. Unless you're really doing some major research that you'll be able to write up an article that can be published. But I would say not, less than 50 percent. But you know like in the marketing area, a lot more. I would say 70 percent. Seventy to 80 percent. Because you do a lot of writing. You can be writing manuals, communicating with customers. You are um...of course communicating with other people in your, that you work with, which you do in R&D too, but...um...a lot more writing with pamphlets and um...writing up marketing procedures and strategies and...sometimes even...other things.

Interviewer: Okay. Um...so you think, say for instance in the marketing area, 'cause that's the area of interest, if the marketing engineer spends 70 percent of her time doing communication tasks, uh, what percentage of that is writing and what is speaking, do you, would you guess?

Student: Oh, wow.

Interviewer: Or maybe even, which do you think they do more of?

Student: I think they probably talk more, and then of course it depends on the job that you're doing because if you're working more like there might be problems with the product or questions that customers have, they usually call you. So your job is to talk to them on the phone and answer their questions and if you don't know the answers to go and look it up and then get back to them. So I would have to say for the most part probably talking. But it depends. If you're in another kind of group where you're working on writing up proposals or um...pamphlets or sometimes you do up little videos or things like that, promotional things. You probably could do more writing in that group.

Interviewer: Okay. Okay. Um...so, given, given all this, what you know might be out in the workforce and what you've experienced in your education, how well prepared do you feel to go out and...let's say you've got the job. Hewlett-Packard calls up and they say, "Come on down, we've got a job for you." How successful do you think that you'll be on your job? Um...what do you think some of the challenges and...you know both technical and communication type things.

Student: Yeah, um. I think I would definitely have to work on my communication, mainly probably public speaking, would have to be working on that. Because I know sometimes, um, if you're selling a company a product, they will come in and have representatives that have come so you can teach them how to use that product. So you could be running a class. Um, so that's kind of public speaking. I'd probably have to work on that a little bit. And, um, of course applying your technical knowledge. I think we do so much in school, we do so much...analysis and not enough design and application.

Interviewer: Mmhm. Do you think that, um...the...that you can learn those things on the job pretty easily, um...

Student: Yeah. I think I could. I think. Yeah.

Interviewer: How come?

Student: Um...I've always seemed to have a knack for learning things quickly. So. Yeah.

Interviewer: Okay. If you got into, um, a situation, you're on your job, and um...you're struggling to figure something out. What would you do?

Student: [pause] Well, I don't mind asking people for help. I would probably go talk to somebody who I was comfortable talking with and who I knew...would, um, be able to help me out. Or at least give me a shove in the right direction.

Interviewer: Okay. Um. [pause] So. The final question, believe it or not, is...you're a senior. You're an expert now in many respects. An expert on being a student in your program, and...so we talked a little bit about you felt like maybe the 401/402 course would be better, uh, at an earlier time. What other improvements would you suggest, uh, as far as the communication aspect of your training?

Student: Um, I think that it would be beneficial if...it was the same...TAs or teachers or whatever that were teaching the same course every year instead of having a new group...two new TAs come in and teach the course every year because...it gets confusing. They have to write up their little, their whole new, I mean I think they've only done this for two years and both years they've had somebody new and they changed the format so you don't know what you're prepared for and everything. I think that that's one kind of improvement that I would think be helpful. Um. [pause] I don't know. I...it's kind of boring to me to sit and talk about...grammar and...I don't know that kind of stuff. Grammar...and how to construct a paragraph and...you know um...real simple things. Although I guess that's kind of a problem for electrical engineers, but um, maybe working more on just general styles of technical writing. Working on that more, I think.

Interviewer: You mean like, um, maybe the way some of the different publications present information?

Student: That, um, I, I think the progress report was kind of a good idea. You know there's a progress report format that you would present to your boss. There's like a technical journal format. There's like how you would talk or a way of writing a speech format for technical information. Um...what not. And. In fact, I remember last semester they had this person come in and talk about visual aids, and how much you should put on an overhead and whatnot. And I though that was really helpful because I didn't, I didn't know anything about that. And how big to make the type. And make it bold. And stuff. And I found that helpful. Um...but yeah probably for improvements yeah, more different types of um writing styles. I guess for me I just think you know by the time you become a senior and you still don't know how to write a paragraph, you're kind of hurtin'.

Interviewer: Yeah. I understand what you mean there. Um...how about within...the other courses that you've taken. You mentioned that...when you first started out it was write up these labs. And that was all the instruction you got. Do you see any other places along the way in the curriculum, in your EE curriculum that there needs to be any instruction on how to do things?

Student: Um, yeah, sometimes I think you get thrown into use this kind of software to solve this problem and you don't even know how to use the software. And that can be kind of a pain because, you know...if it's complicated and there's no manual to look up in and then the help window is not helping you much, then, you know you're spending a lot of time just trying to learn to use the software. Which, you know, maybe that would be helpful to learn how to use the software, some of the more pertinent software packages I think also at an early stage because you really...do seem, a lot of them you do seem to use...so much of it is if you don't have enough time on your own to learn it, then you can get in trouble.

Interviewer: Mmhm. Okay. Uh...and you also mentioned that maybe, um, composition, the earlier composition courses could be more technically oriented and that sort of thing, okay.

Student: Yeah.

Interviewer: Um. [pause] Well, that's all the questions that I have. Is there anything that I didn't ask about that...you think would be helpful for me to know?

Student: No. I think I told you everything I had written down on the uh...the question, not the questionnaire, the uh, evaluation.

Interviewer: At the end of last semester?

Student: Yes.

Interviewer: Okay. Uh...okay, and you also told me some real interesting stuff about yourself and that's real important for us to, um, know about the people that are in the course, and that sort of thing. Um, for instance telling about your summer project and some of the experiences you had really helps me understand where you're coming from and what context you've taken this course in.

Student: Yeah. Yeah. Because some of the things that I have done, you know, some other students have not had those kinds of advantages and it can, it can be a real struggle I think.

Interviewer: Have you had a chance to see, by the way, any of the, the writing of , that the other students are doing in the class?

Student: Um, yeah. We would...trade off progress reports and do workshop and feedback. I found that really beneficial, probably the most. Um because then you get more than one opinion on what you're writing.

Interviewer: Yeah. Having a chance to look at some of your peers' work, um, what did you think about it.

Student: Um, I sometimes thinks there's a definite problem with communicating what you're trying...to get across, I think. I don't think industry was kidding when they said that engineers don't know how to write. [laughs]

Interviewer: Mmhm. And you see this in some of the work of the people.

Student: Yeah. Some of them. Although there's others that are really, really good. So I really think it varies from person to person and what kind of experience they've had before.

Interviewer: Okay.

Student: I guess what I mean when I'm saying that by the time they become a senior, you can't ...change what they've already learned or it's very hard to change what they've already learned or have ingrained, imbedded in their head about how to write.

Interviewer: Mmhm. Yeah. I think that sometimes of freshman myself, which I teach CO150. [laughter] It's like, oh, I've gotta change 13 years now. But I think you're right. It's a little easier when a person's first starting their career. Okay. Well, thank you very much.

[END OF INTERVIEW]